In California .... suppose you bought a used car that looked perfect and was advertised as a perfect car, but within 30 days of taking it home you find evidence of previous major body damage ...

suppose this was not disclosed at all at the dealership, but rather the car was offered as a perfect, high quality, low milage car ...

suppose the CARFAX report shows no "re-build" in the report ... and no accidents ....

suppose the car was sold with the "AS IS" box check marked ....

And just imagine this ... suppose this happened at a Lexus dealership with a Lexus car ....

You guessed it! THIS HAPPENED TO ME.

Too late now ...... and it is all over, anyway. I sold the car 6 months later, and it is all water under the bridge ....

LESSON LEARNED : WHO you buy your car from is more important than the car itself.

I think what happened to me was actually DEALERSHIP FRAUD. The car was listed in the LA times and on Ebay ..... it was misrepresented. I paid my "stupid tax" .... and got lucky enough to find a guy that bought my car anyways, but I fully disclosed everything to him first ... twice. Mechanically, the car was great ... no frame damage or anything ..... and the car is still doing very well today (24 months later) ... virtually no problems with it at all ......

Ray .... your thoughts .... ?

Hey Rick, Am I reading you one line right " the car was sold AS IS to you ?

Answer that Q , and I will then fully understand your question and provide you with some answers.

Hi Ray ... yes ... well ... in California, many of the dealers will have a document taped to the window of a used car that indicates that if you buy the car, it comes with a 'warranty included' ... OR ... it is being "sold as is - no warranty". There is a box on the form next to either selection ..... one of the boxes will be checked. I have the impression that the use of this document is required by California as full disclosure for the purpose of consumer protection ....

Sometimes a car will look really perfect, be low milage etc, yet will be offered "as is- no warranty" .... I have noticed that most of the time only the very top condition, ultra perfect cars will be offered with the "warranty included " box checked ....

this same document also indicates the year, vin #, and milage of the car .... I think every California dealer uses this form, pretty much ....

During the actual write-up for the car when you are actually signing all the papers .... if the car is being sold "as is- no warranty", they will come to this document as you go along and you must sign that you fully understand that you are buying this car "as is" .... so the dealer is released from liability if you take the car home and then find something objectionable about its condition AFTER the sale is complete ...

Perhaps "Certified Pre-owned" is the way to go .... especially on a Lexus?

The car I bought was in Beverly Hills of all places .... kinda figured anyone living there would have the income to keep their car fully maintained ... you know? Everyone there has a garage at home and they all use them. The car I bought was a very good deal from the local Lexus dealership there ....

Truth is, it was just all baseless hype and image with nothing to back it up. Looking back, I think the sales person had an addiction problem and also happened to be in the process of hooking- up with the cute girl in the finance dept. that same night (who had a substantial wedding ring on) ... in other words .... I was not finding too much indication of integrity there, and should have bailed out fast, but the emotion factor got me. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Another thing I learned is to check the dealers Better Business Bureau rating before you ever decide to deal with them ...... found out that particular dealership had a rating of "F" .... but stupid me only found out after it was to late.

Lexus dealers do seem to be better with customer service in general terms .... especially the ones with a Better Business Bureau rating of "A" .... I complained to Lexus Corporate about my situation, but they just threw the ball back to the dealer who offered to trade me for another car. I declined, as I figured I would probably get screwed once again from that group of people who obviously have no conciseness and are clearly not committed to excellence in their craft ....

so anyways .... I hope this better explains my original posting here .....

If a dealer advertises a car as being mint, perfect, clean CarFax (and my CarFax was clean, by the way) local trade in, one owner ..... however is being sold "as-is" .... would it constitute Dealer Fraud? The car I bought was in fact misrepresented .... for sure.

I should have caught the signs of rebuild ... but did not. My fault. They should have just wholesaled the car out and not had it on their lot in the first place (the Lexus dealers usually NEVER have such a car with such remarkable history as an offering ... another reason I was not looking too close that night) ....

When it comes to the issue of Dealer Fraud ... where is the line drawn?

Perhaps others can be saved from great trouble by reading this .... I hope so.

Thanks, Ray ....... it is fun to read through your site here ... !