....very rude toward people who don't know much about creating a website. People who use the wizards at all are treated as if they are stupid or something. I set up my site using the wizard but have been using the file manager editors to make changes; yet everytime I ask a question I get comments about making my site with the Wizard. I already feel dumb cause I don't know html and such and I am made to feel even worse when I ask for help.

....it also isn't very helpful. People reply to questions as if everyone knows what they are talking about. Well I for one, would not ask the questions if I knew what I was doing... to answer as if I do does not help me.

Well, as one of the people who have been rude enough to try to help you, I apologize. I'll try to help people who don't mind being insulted instead.

I know the feeling well. Auto mechanics always talk to me like I'm so kind of idiot. But next time, instead of asking "What is this carburettor thingy you are talking about", I'll just tell them that this kind of rude talk doesn't help me.

I didn't mean to offend you or anyone else. I appreciate any help I have gotten. Unfortunately,as someone who knows nothing at all about codes and such; most answers I get are not helpful.
Also, I have been made to feel like a real jerk for using the Wizard to start my site. I have seen it done time and again to others who used the wizard. That isn't fair. Some people just don't know how to do code and such and they shouldn't be made to feel wrong for using the wizard.
Instead why don't people try explaining in clear English how to do things? Wouldn't that be a novel idea????

I agree with you Maria. Although at one time I used to be professional developer and now that I have stopped working for almost ten years now and need help I feel very frustrated.

It would be an excellent idea for the helpers to put each instruction step by step not to leave any tiny detail (a tiny detail is huge for someone who has never worked on website building).

I don't remember anything that I used to do 10yrs ago and need every instruction that I can get and trying to work with Bravenet has been terrible. As you can see I still don't have my site up and running and paid for it a while back.

Browser: tiwari5485@msn.com,3

The Wizard is designed for creating very simple sites with no more than a handful of pages with simple content on each.

Many people who start out try to use the Wizard to create far more complicated sites than it is intended for. It is much harder to try to hack the Wizard to do more than it is intended to do than it is to use one of the hundreds of other editors that have the capability of doing what is requested without needing to hack the editor functionality.

Most Wizard questions are the web browser equivalent of "how can I fix my pushbike (Wizard created web site) so that I can use it to compete in Formula One racing (other editor created web site)?"

You know I love the answer - use a different editor (like notepad) and then upload the finished product to the site.

Well that's all well and good but if you know NOTHING about html code or really anything about editing in general .... well then it means nothing. If I knew how to do editting or how to use the different editor I wouldn't be asking so many questions!

Agree with you 100%. The worst part is when you continue to get the same reply over and over again, even when you'r telling them that you need to know every tid bit of the information.

Frustrating isn't it

Browser: tiwari5485@msn.com,3

I am only a kid so I know nothing on the subject of uploading or .bmp. In fact, I'm only in 6th grade. I am trying to apply myself to something that could help me in either the future or when I feel like I wan't to do something to show off to my friends with. "This is MY site." I know that sounds immature but I love the internet, being connected to my friends, and all of that kind of stuff. Basically, I would be the last person to know how to do ANY of this. So, if you (Taru or Maria) know any sites or resources that DO tell every little DETAIL, please e-mail me the site! Much Thanks, Lizzie.

There are lots of tutorial sites and a little time with a search engine will find them. For html I started out with Webmonkey. With hindsight it isn't the best one around but it does pitch itself at the total novice without any assumptions about past experience.

A lot of people have problems because they try to start building a site before they have mastered basic PC skills. I would suggest getting your school library to order a copy or two of Windows for Dummies. Despite the name it is actually a very good text book for beginners.

For your webpages you use these 3 graphics types
.jpg,png or gif usually.

Photos are usually.jpg and can saved as .png also.
.Png files are bigger then .jpg many times
I found.

Clipart images are gifs usually.
Animated images are .gifs also.

Not too long ago, I didn't know how to make a link or tables...had no idea what an editor was..didn't even know what copy/paste meant....this was like a foreign language to me...still is in some aspects

You're not going to find all your answers in a forum....You're not going to find easy answers...it's not easy stuff...

To put it bluntly, you have to work for your answers/learning...

If you don't understand something, you search till you get that understanding..I use Google to search, read tutorials, which, nine times out of ten, lead me to more info in the form of links on their page....read designers websites/blogs...try out their demos, visit different forums for info/ideas/advice..read more tutorials!...there are a plethora of resources on the web...

I'm not trying to be rude, and people can and will help you, but they can't do it for you... you 'gotta work for it'

(this is not directed towards anyone, its just a general comment)

Maria, don't give up.. Keep trying.. I'm sure we've all been there.. I myself don't know a heck alot about website design, but I sure busted my but trying to learn.. This might sound like the stupidist idea ever but try this.. Build a myspace.. through myspace.com.. Supid??? actually I've learned ALOT just by building my myspace.. I can go on my space mess around with codes that are premaid and I have learned a few extra things about website building..
Good Luck.. That's the best I can do..

    Try this free software:


    http://www.coffeecup.com/free-editor/


    http://www.coffeecup.com/free-editor/download.php


    It helped me learn HTML -- and still is!

Browser: SBernheart,2

i know exactly how you feel as i'm in the same situation myself. unfortunatly knowing loads doesn't mean you can teach it to others who don't know what you are talking about.

i'm a riding instructor/trainer and come across it all the time when teaching up and coming instructors. they have no idea how to teach and that's what i have found with some replies on here. the ones replying just don't understand that they have to treat us just like a comp. you don't tell the comp in a html program that you want it to look different if someone puts their cursor over a certain button. there are various steps to take first and that is what teaching is about.

we all appreciate being helped, but all we ask is that you assume we know nothing and break everything down so that we understand it better.

corwings actually said to me that i could have learnt html coding in the time i had spent asking questions about why my site was doing what it was (or wasn't as was the case) so i took the advice and i can now read basic html and am in the process of learning the more complicated stuff.

the wizard does have limitations which is why i'm building my site myself. it's hard going but very rewarding actually.

keep trying

@#$% YOU!!!!!!!!!!

and if you will **** on me, please

Hey Jake,

What was all that about? Frustrated?

It's so good to know that so many people share their views. Darn right when you see we could have learned it elsewhere but then what's all the HYIP about Bravenet advertising - easy website building and excellent customer service.

Oh, ya the customer service that tell you to go take a hike and learn elsewhere! I should've known that before paying too right?

In that case look at Jake's reply - lol

Browser: tiwari5485@msn.com,3

I will actually agree with your original quote maria - i have just posted a question which to others may seem very naive and somewhat pathetic but i too know very little about creating websites and was most upset with the reply i got. it wasnt constructive advice just plain rudeness

First of all, why don't we have a question mark in the Message Icons? I could think of a few more, for that matter, but instead, I had to use a smiley to show what I'm feeling about Jake. Say what???

   "@#$% YOU!!!!!!!!!! and if you will **** on me, please"

Jake, don't bother -- I don't want to hear it!

Secondly, I completely agree with suneanarab. Maria, unfortunately, it is almost impossible to come to any forum without a little knowledge of what you're asking about. Suneanarab gave a great example of how hard it is to try to teach somebody something. Another example might be trying to learn a new language. It helps if you already have a gist about this and that. If you don't have a sense of the vernacular, then the words you may be given won't necessarily make any sense either. Do you know what I mean?

In a previous reply, I gave you the URL of a free site that I'm using right now. It isn't where I started (looking) for help, but it works well for me. The only thing I don't like about the free version is that you can't use the Visual Editor, but you can always 'copy' and 'paste' the code you're working on in Bravenet's Visual Editor if you really want to that much. I'm not a big fan of the Visual Editor, but it doesn't mean everyone has to agree. Personally, I just ask to 'view' it and if something's not right, I go back and work on it somemore.

Lastly, as you can see, I used some 'buzz words' in the previous paragraph. Words like 'copy', 'paste' and 'code' are basic commands/terms, just to name a few, that you should at least recognize (if not learn or already know) so that when you 'get stuck' and ask for help in a forum, you'll understand the answers you're given. Does this make any sense?
In the beginning, I offered my help in exchange for the kind of help you're asking for now. I did some editing in a wiki to barter for the help I needed at the time. That's just one example, and it doesn't matter if you don't know what a 'wiki' is, the point is that in exchange for help I received, I traded the correction of spelling errors and such that helped someone else who didn't have the time to proof their own work because they spent a lot of time helping others, like myself, in the forums. We all end up in the forums for one reason or another, so don't feel bad -- you're not stupid, nor is anyone intentionally trying to make you feel stupid. I think there should be a manditory notice of some kind to 'spell out' how most forums work and what to expect. I said most, so those that have a 'Please Read This First' post at the beginning of their forum don't need to correct me, please.

So take a look at http://www.coffeecup.com/free-editor/ site and if you download at http://www.coffeecup.com/free-editor/download.php check out my favorite tab on the left side of the window -- 'Snippets'. Here you can save parts of code that, say, you use a lot or some you may want to remember for later use, whatever. Take a look at the 'Tags' tab and the 'DHTML' tab -- the latter in particular may help you learn about 'menus'. If I remember correctly, it was the 'menus' you wanted help with. Learn about them first and then you might be lucky to have one of the 'brainier' ones in the bunch to help you make it work to your specifications. By the way, I really like your crosses. I'd bet that some of the 'brainier' ones (no offense, really) couldn't do the kind of work that YOU do best!

Keep your chin up, peruse some of the code you're interested in and be sure to give the forum as much info as you can to avoid 'back and forth'ism and save everyone time, OK? Good luck! I'll be looking forward to seeing how it all works out!!

Bern

Browser: SBernheart,2

In reply to the first post on this thread, I often get annoyed about not being able to do something. But unfortunately the best way to find out something is often by yourself as other people who are just reading your posts don't know the full situation you are in.

I changed from the Wizard to the File Manager and I am unsure as to what I think of my Site as although I feel the content is quite good, the appearance is quite bad as it is disjointed. There have been many occassions where I have wanted to throw in the towel but I wanted a Website so kept on plugging away at it. And will continue to do so.

My advice to you would be not to use the forum to help you out all the time and try to find it out from somewhere like Search engines (these have helped me out a lot). Then if you are still stuck, try the forum.

Thanks.

http://benwalmsley.bravehost.com

I don't know whether I should be even more sympathetic than I've already been with this thread or consider the whole subject PATHETIC!!!

CHECK THIS OUT, CORWINGS -- I MAY BE JUMPING SHIP!!!

I'm sorry guys, really, but out of 20 posts to date, Maria has only responded twice in regards to HER thread and after all the support given -- including 3 of my own posts -- I see no response from her.

Look, here's the thing. In the original thread, "Need answers....", Corwings was first to answer and yet again with a perfectly logical solution to someone who knows no code at all, but the latter post wasn't even acknowledged. First of all, the forums, for the most part, are watched, read and answered by people like Corwings who admitted to the fact that "...I don't know how to do things in Wizard, and I don't do dropdown menus, just an alterative suggestion..." and people like me and many, many more who, for example, may have had a problem of their own and afterwards may have continued to return to the forums and tried to help others who may now have the same problems they once had. I can't speak for anyone else, but I happen to enjoy returning the favor of a stranger's help and I'd like to think that the stranger felt some satisfaction having helped me.

I may be venting here, but, for starters, when I offered a couple of perfectly good URL's that would probably help better than we all could, Maria (and she's not the only one) didn't even take the time to state that she would 'check them out'. I would have felt good about that.

Next, suneanarab posted what I wished I had had the time to post along with the links I looked up, but I returned again anyway with a lengthy post and Maria's a no-show. No one, for that matter, had anything to say except Ben who appeared to agree on the side of search and discovery -- then help when 'stuck'.

I entered 'HTML' only into the search box I was using and with one click I was given many great sites to which gave basic, beginner lessons for those who have only this to say,

   "Well that's all well and good but if you know NOTHING about html code or really    anything about editing in general .... well then it means nothing. If I knew how to do
   editing or how to use the different editor I wouldn't be asking so many questions!"

I hope I didn't offend anyone -- or anyone in particular -- because that wasn't what I had in mind. From the get go, however, I was frustrated with the lack of appreciation, not just for those who try to answer the many questions, but for those who take the TIME  away from their own busy day trying to answer the many questions. I must include those threads that, for one reason or another, don't get answered quickly or don't get answered at all. There are perfectly logical reasons why and why not.

Most forums request that you peruse the forums for threads related to your problem or, better yet, use the search box. I entered the word 'buttons' into a search box in this very forum. I was given eleven pages of threads relating to 'buttons' and I'm sure if you entered more specific info, the returns would be even more refined. One reason why your thread may take time before you get an answer could simply be because no one viewing the threads at that time knows the answer. If no answer is ever given, it may just be that no one knows the answer -- period!

Don't take things so personal. Nobody knows anybody. Why would anyone be 'rude' on purpose? Maria, you may have thought that Corwings was a little rude  in this thread posting, "Well, as one of the people who have been rude enough to try to help you, I apologize. I'll try to help people who don't mind being insulted instead.", but in your thread titled "Need answers....", I didn't think Corwings was rude at all and posted again there taking the time to come up with an alternate answer for you and after all this, may not answer your threads again, but I can't speak for Corwings.

I know what it's like to not know a blessed thing about HTML, so much so that I stopped working on my website to learn some code and how to apply what I learned to my website. Only recently did I start working on it again and I don't pretend to be any where near finished, but now I'm having fun working on it rather than getting headaches over it.

In closing, here's a few of those URL's I mentioned earlier that I found when I entered 'HTML' in my search box:

   http://werbach.com/barebones/
      http://werbach.com/barebones/download.html
      http://werbach.com/barebones/barebones.html

   W3Schools: http://www.w3schools.com/html/default.asp
      http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_intro.asp

   HTML Goodies: http://www.htmlgoodies.com/primers/html/

   HTML Code Tutorial: http://www.htmlcodetutorial.com/

I hope this post finds all who have no clue about any of this business. I want everyone to think about this for a moment. Those of you familiar with the English rules of grammer should know the simple rhyme, "I after E except after C", and would know how to apply it. When spelling, for example, the letter 'i' always followed the letter 'e' as in 'neighbor' or 'their' or 'seize' EXCEPT after the letter 'c' as in 'receive' or 'ceiling'. OK, enough of the spelling bee. My point was that there are many, many rules that follow a language, another of which I just used -- 'there' and 'their' are pronounced the same, but do not mean the same. Are you getting the idea? You MUST recognize the characters in a language BEFORE the 'words' make any sense, not to mention the words in a sentence making ANY sense at all!!

Please, Maria (and everyone like Maria), take the time to at least take a good look at the sites I gave you. I especially suggest http://werbach.com/barebones/barebones.html as it has the 'tags' you need to be aware of since it is these 'tags' that together make the 'words' that make the 'sentences' of the language of HTML in it's most basic form.

Thank you, those of you that read this, for taking the time to do so. I hope, this time, it makes the right sense or turns on that light bulb above your head and finally allows you to say, "I get it. I really get IT!" I promise you'll have a lot more fun!! One last suggestion, if I may, when working with an editor, I always make a copy of my page as it is before I make changes or I keep a copy of certain parts of it. I find that if I change my mind later, it's a lot easier to put the code back the way it was. Just a thought.

Bern

Browser: SBernheart,2

Bern -
I have been reading ALL the replies to all my posts. Please do not call me a no show. Just because I have not replied does not mean I have not been here to read. I have a special needs baby and am ill myself. I have not felt the need to reply to people 'arguing' about my post.

I appreciate the time you took to reply to me (as well as everyone else).
As it is Easter weekend I am very short on time but wanted to acknowledge your reply.
I have explained time and again that my illness causes me several problems - the least of which is confusion when I try to read 'complicated' things. I don't think I will ever learn HTML because it just causes me too many health problems.... it causes me great confusion and literally gives me a headache. So shoot me if I am ill and cannot do the HTML that everyone wants to force me to do. There is a visual editor for a reason. Also when a person tells you they don't know where to put a line of code in HTML wouldn't the easiest thing be to just tell them where it goes (like when I asked about meta-tags).

One last thing and then I must go (been typing too long as it is) ..... to the person who said it is hard to teach people things:
I homeschool so I know about teaching others. As far as your comment about learning another language ... ummm no you don't need the gist of it to learn a language or for that matter anything. Did you have the gist of the alphabet when you learned it????

For now I am going to go. During the week (when I hope to have more time) I will reply with something more profound.
Maria

OH and Bern I will check out the sites you gave me (as I have checked all the sites offered to me)!!! I have even checked everyone's websites.
Maria

Once again I share your thoughts Maria. I am in the same boat, my illness keeps me from doing I lot of things I really would be doing otherwise.

I come to the computer so as to not give into the illness and get myself going with my life and Bravenet's advertisement about easy web creation and great customer service and then not following through it does not help people like us, not to mention all the lengthy replies from the well meaning trying to help.

Just as an information - people who are dealing with disabilities and what not are already very frustrated and are actually trying to build a website to provide them with something creative to do to take their minds off the pain and suffering and also for a sense of achievement. Any hurdle that may be very tiny for a normal person is huge for someone who is dealing with one/more situations already. We should be patient and try to help as much as possible.

Thanks for hearing me out.

Taru

Browser: tiwari5485@msn.com,3

If I were you I wouldn't bother listening to them (They know who they are!). They are short tempered, reply sarcastically to many posts and have no patience with beginners. It seems to me that they spend too much time on the computer insulting people who are beginners in web design.

They seem to forget that they were beginners once. HTML is an extremely hard thing to learn. I know very basic info and thats it. As for replying to everyone who posts, I would like to see if they do. Most People don't live with a computer by their side all day.

Maria, I know you're busy with the holiday and all, but I wanted to make sure you checked your email program so it doesn't consider my address as spam. Oh, I'm sure that a few of the funny ones might want to treat ANY address of mine as spam, but in my defense, I sent you an attachment explaining in detail, I think, the use of Meta tags, so please look out for it, OK?
I've learned the hard way why NOT to list your true email address due to the spammers. They'll collect addresses ANY WAY THEY CAN!!!!! As long as you're watching for it, the address is SBernheart@HotPOP.com and it's already been sent. Hope it helps and enjoy the holiday, too. Happy Easter Everybody!!!!!!!!!!!

Browser: SBernheart,2

I am only going to reply briefly...
Bern I got your email and replied -- Thank you!

As far as everyone else ....
I sympathise with everyone who is as new to this as I am. I wish people would remember when they knew nothing.

Also, I have told people that I have health issues that cause me great difficulty in trying to figure out HTML coding. I don't feel I should have to explain what my limitations are. They shouldn't matter... if someone says they have trouble with something, try to understand and help them.
My question now would be; what if I had dyslexia? How hard do you think it would be for me to try to learn HTML?? Darn near impossible I would guess.

Thanks to those of you who do TRY to help others. EVEN if the help isn't always understood or well received.

And one last thing Bern .. if you go back and look at the Need Answers thread; I did reply to corwings about the drop down menu. I said I would just direct people to the photo album. Not criticizing you ... you may have just missed it!
Maria

Love, of course in your life time you are going to come across idiots and arseholes, and there are one or two that would reply to someone needing help in a sarcastic and mean way, simply because they are what todays society call "Knowitalls".
They expect everyone to know everything, and then when someone doesn't, they completely make you feel stupid and pathetic, just for the cause of embarassment knowing that many people browse this forum and will see how "cool and brainy" the ignorant fly really is...
I will not name the ones I think are jerks, but they do exist in this forum... although they do give wicked advice, their insults and remarks take over that... so in time you will get better at what you are doing, keep at it and you will get there.. for the meantime just ignore them..

Good Luck

Hi Maria,
Go to www.lissaexplainsall.com It is a site for people like me who knows little to nothing about html. It is written for kids, but I am 60 years old and it is a great site for us who do not know too much. good luck

that's a good site that thai suggests...but, it seems to have more pop-ups then it use to....

I have just revisited this thread so I could write down the suggested websites.
I am kinda bummed (my baby is going in for a sedated echocardiogram on Monday so I am really stressed) ... I love the colors of my website. Not only the colors but where they are on the page. (I tried a few other of the wizard's layouts and didn't like where the same colors were)
I think my site (as new as it is) needs a major overhaul. I really want to move the Things to Do box from the right side of the page but I am being told that it is near impossible. I should say I need to move the box cause I need the space for my stuff. I want to arrange my items just slightly differently and need the room.

Any suggestions of what I could do? I am sure some will tell me to try one of the layouts available to me. I may do so but first I need to figure out how on earth to actually do so LOL.
Well before the baby wakes again I am going to check out a few of the sites offered.
Any suggestions or ideas are welcomed.
Maria