okay.. thanks for the info. Also do you think presence of rust (1 area) is an issue even though they are gona replace that part?

Thats the same car with the (tar) which overal seems to be in "okay" shape before reconditioning, not too beat up..engine is not great shape but not as dirty as what i seen before..which i guess means the person didn't fully take care of it..my friend who is in automechnics will check it out further (and yes on the highway :)

At 70,000km, (2004 EL) for $14,900 is the best offer I seen from an Acura dealer so far in 2 months..and i can try to reduce that since I worry of MISC. fees. Even though u said wholesale is $10,400, and ask for max $12,700..Im gona try to ask for $14,000, then max out at $14,400..will see how this goes :) What do you think abt this?

I think if every one shopped and study how to buy a car like you have,,, there would be no need for me having a website.

Is there any sales people in you area that haven't quit their job yet after dealing with a shark like you ?

not yet..surprisingly..they just thought i was a tough negotiator after not going a penny higher (why did they care if they had another buyer willing to pay $2,000 more than what i was asking for)
...but thanks to you! Will update you later on how the 14.400 goes.