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Ask the Nutritionist: Dr. Getty's Forum for Equine Nutrition

   Welcome to my forum. 

Here you will find more than 6 years of questions and my answers. It is searchable and offers a great deal of information. 

Currently, I am discontinuing new questions. This may change in the future, but in the meantime, please know that It has been a true pleasure serving you. 

Take a look at my Nutrition Library and Tips of the Month for a variety of answers on selected topics. Be sure to sign up for my monthly e-newsletter, Forage for Thought

I also have a growing number of recordings on "Teleseminars on Nutrition Topics that Concern You" as well as the new, Spotlight on Equine Nutrition Series -- printed versions of favorite teleseminars.

And finally, look for my articles in a variety of local publications and online newsletters, as well as the Horse Journal, where I am the Contributing Nutrition Editor.  

 

All the best,

 Dr. Getty 

 



Ask the Nutritionist: Dr. Getty's Forum for Equine Nutrition
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Does alfalfa cause founder?

Hi there,

I was asking about alfalfa on another discussion group about a year ago as the hay crop around here (SW France) had failed and I was going to have to feed alfalfa chop all winter (no grazing either). It was suggested to me that alfalfa can have quite a high sugar content depending on where it is grown and may not be suitable for insulin-resistant or laminitis prone horses. For example, alfalfa grown in the UK would have a much lower sugar content than that grown in South Africa, or even in my part of the world (southern Europe). Also, I have been reading Jaime Jackson's (controversial) book on Founder; Prevention and Cure the Natural Way, and he is determined that legumes shouldn't be fed to horses because they're "founder traps"... (I have just had to overseed my field with Birdsfoot Trefoil though to try and fix nitrogen and keep the pasture healthy!)

So, are legumes really goodies or baddies??

Re: Does alfalfa cause founder?

I'd be interested in this to - Robert eustance of the Lamintus clinic recommends feeding Alfalfa as a feed - the protein content being excellent for growth etc...

Re: Does alfalfa cause founder?

There is a lot of controversy over alfalfa, as you can see. Let me try to go over some of the myths....

I do not agree that alfalfa is a cause of founder. Fructan (the sugar found in grasses after they have been exposed to the sun all day) is not high in a dried hay. If a horse were allowed to graze on fresh alfalfa in the late afternoon, then this could be an issue. However, sun-cured alfalfa hay does not have enough fructan to be of concern.

Alfalfa is an excellent source of protein. Grass, grass hays, and grains are low in the essential amino acid, lysine. Alfalfa, since it is a legume, has plenty of lysine, and therefore, can "donate" some to the grass hay to create a high quality protein. This is a very important benefit of alfalfa. You see, in order for a horse to build muscle mass, maintain its immune system, have adequate blood proteins, produce digestive enzymes, etc (it's a long list), it must have the protein building blocks necessary to make these body proteins. Half of the amino acids in the horse's system must come from the diet -- these are referred to as "essential." The horse simply cannot make them or cannot make enough of them to meet his needs.

So, alfalfa provides the correct amount of these building blocks (amino acids) that the horse needs to maintain his body functions.

Some people condemn alfalfa as harmful because of its protein content. However, it is important to understand that when a low quality protein is fed, much of it gets metabolized as energy, and not used to make body proteins. Alfalfa contains a high quality protein, and therefore, it is used the way it was intended -- to make the body proteins the horse needs for optimal health.

Additionally, because the protein is of high quality, the kidneys and liver do not get overworked. Low quality proteins make these vital organs work harder to get rid of the excess ammonia and urea that results from a low quality protein diet.

The one "drawback" of alfalfa -- which is easily managed -- is its high calcium content. This is generally not a problem if the horse is receiving other forage sources, since they are high enough is phosphorus to balance out the calcium to phosphorus ratio. However, if a horse is on a high alfalfa diet and the owner wishes to supplement the diet with a vitamin/mineral supplement, it is important to choose a supplement designed for alfalfa diets. Such a supplement will be low in calcium.

So, bottom line -- alfalfa is excellent. It does not cause founder. And, it is one of the most nutritious forages available. Make certain that your provider can assure you of its safety, however -- it must be free of blister beetles. These insects can kill a horse. So, choose a reputable provider.

I hope this is helpful in clarifying the issue.

All the best,

Dr. Getty

feed for older horse

Can you feed alfafa cubes and beet pulp both. I mix beet pulp with a complete feed (high fat high fibre rougage chunks) this he gets 3 times a day (small amounts each time - about 5 pounds wet weight) and I give soadked alfafa cubes twice a day - about 10 pounds wet weight each time. He cannot eat any hay as his teeth are not in good shape, just recently floated but only made things worse. He is 25 years old, 15.2 hands and is a thoroughbred/quarter horse mix. Tell me, am I doing the right thing or am I doing more harm than good on this diet. He has been on this for almost 2 weeks now and has eaten no hay for that same period or time.
Help!!!

Where are you from? Bancroft

How did you locate this forum? by accident

Re: Does alfalfa cause founder?

Hello Joyce,

Yes, certainly you may feed alfalfa and beet pulp together. In fact, that is an excellent combination. Soaking his feed is also a good idea to assist older horses whose teeth are not as efficient at grinding.

You can still offer hay. You might try soaking that, as well. It would be best for him to have access to roughage throughout the day so he doesn’t bolt down his feed due to being overly anxious. So, by allowing him to graze on pasture or hay, you’ll make feeding time safer for his digestive system.

Keep up the fine job!

Dr. Getty

Re: Does alfalfa cause founder?

Hi Dr. Getty, thanks for getting back to me so quickly. Good to hear that I can give both of those feeds and not worry. His stools have been soft but well formed up until today, they are more like cow pies. What is causing this, is it the amount of feed at one time, or could something else be causing the problem. I do not want it to develop into full diarrhea, that could be very bad for him. He cannot eat hay at all, he had his teeth floated about 2 week s ago and has not been able to chew hay ever since. Therefore his only source of food are the mashes I provide him.

Where are you from? Bancroft

How did you locate this forum? by accident

Re: Does alfalfa cause founder?

Hi Joyce,

My pleasure!

Hi loose stools may be in response to the increased fiber in his diet. It make take a week or so more for the bacteria to adjust to the new diet. A loose stool on occasion is not anything to worry about. Reduced hormonal levels (normal as horses age), weather changes, water consumption – these things can create an occasional problem. If, however, he starts to get diarrhea, he may have a digestive problem that could likely be helped by giving him a probiotic preparation every day, to help him maintain normal bacterial flora in his hind gut.

So, let me know how he is doing and what changes are occurring. That way I can give you more specific advice.

Dr. Getty

Re: Does alfalfa cause founder?

Thanks, but what is a probiotic preparation? Sorry I have not had to delve into the world of feeds until just recently as Bert used to eat just normal hay, etc.

joyce

Where are you from? Bancroft

How did you locate this forum? by accident

Re: Does alfalfa cause founder?

Hi Joyce,

A probiotic is generally a mixture of bacteria and enzymes that help a horse maintain a healthy bacterial flora inside the hind gut. There are several on the market – ProBios is one that is popular. You can purchase a probiotic at your local feed store or on line. You’ll want to offer this every day until his stools are normal, and then once each week.

Hope this is helpful. Let me know if you have any other questions. That’s why I’m here.

Dr. Getty

Re: Does alfalfa cause founder?

Thankyou, I will check with the local feed store tomorrow first thing. I will let you know how the old guy is doing.

Have a wonderful Christmas!!!!

Joyce

Where are you from? Bancroft

How did you locate this forum? by accident