Hi Dr. Getty,

You are a mine of information! Thanks so much for this forum.

I have a question about feeding my 18y.o. Morgan mare (technically i lease her but she is 'my responsibility' in day-to-day care). She's a very easy keeper! When we first met, she was getting 1 cup of Strider and 2 flakes of hay am & pm, turnout 6-8hrs./day (some grazing but the fields were rather eaten down), in a stall overnight. She was supplimented with Quiessence.

At the suggestion of a vet/chiropractor who has more homeopathic leanings, she was switched to black oil sunflower seeds (1/2 c./day am & pm) to go with her Quiessence. Hay same. This was to decrease her starch/sugar intake. I also added probiotics to her meals.

She now lives where she is kept on a dry lot, but gets hay (timothy and/or grass) throughout the day. She is in a stall at night. Recently she coliced badly (never determined why). The vets at the clinic where she recovered suggested that i switch her to Triple Crown Lite (1c. am & pm) to ensure that she get a proper balance of vitamins/minerals (particularly selinium, which is depleted in my area). This made sense to me, but the suggestor of the sunflower seeds said that she shouldn't get grain.

If i had my druthers she'd have free-choice hay or grazing day & night with free-choice vitamin/mineral suppliments, her Quiessence & probiotics. However, until she is in my own backyard, this isn't possible.

Since there is a low-sugar, low-starch option for easy keepers, i am leaning toward continuing with the Triple Crown Lite. Looking at the ingredients, i like what i see. But i respect the opinions of both sides, and am not sure if my leaning is the better way. Any insight you can give is greatly appreciated!!!

Thanks,
Deborah

Where are you from? MA

How did you locate this forum? mentioned on a Yahoo! group

Hi Deborah,

The Triple Crown Lite is an excellent choice. However, giving her 1 cup 2x a day is not going to give her the vitamins and minerals she needs. So, you may want to consider giving her a vitamin/mineral supplement, especially since you mentioned that your area is depleted in selenium.

Also, while she is stalled, make sure she has hay to nibble on – if she is going hours without something to eat it can cause her to colic, and can certainly lead to an ulcer.

The Quiessence is fine and so are the probiotics. You’re right – ideally it would be best to let her graze 24/7, but since you can’t do that right now, give her hay 24/7.

All the best,

Dr. Getty

Hi Dr. Getty,

Thanks so much for your response. I will look into vitamin/mineral suppliments, though it's my understanding that the TCLite is formulated to have concentrated amounts of vitamins/minerals so you can feed less but get the same nutritional value... I just don't want to overdo as i know that can be just as bad as -- or worse than! -- not giving enough.

Giving her hay through the night is a bit of an issue. She does get fed when she first goes in and again before the barn owner turns in at 10pm or so, then nothing until i get to the barn at 6am. The trouble with my dear girl is that she can (and will) demolish a flake of hay in no time flat. If i hadn't watched her, i'd swear she just inhaled it whole without chewing. Of course, the ideal would be to feed her a flake every couple of hours that she is stalled. But in reality, i can't ask the barn owner to do that.

She can't be the only hay vaccuum out there... is there anything to be done other than leaving 3 bales of hay in her stall and letting her polish them off? (which in reality i can't actually afford to do!)

Deborah

PS -- Interesting that you should mention ulcers... She is not a lazy horse, but late this summer her "work ethic" changed. In my reading i have come across gastric ulcers as a possible cause for such an attitude change, and a potential cause for the colic. I've only been part of her life for 1.5 years, but i understand it she has always been kept in situations where she is stalled at night without access to enough hay to nibble until morning (not that i have ever seen her "nibble" hay!). Could this just be catching up with her in her later years?

Where are you from? MA

How did you locate this forum? Yahoo! group mentioning

hey Deborah,
To keep her from inhaling hay, get a large rubber tub for her hay, and put several large heavy rocks, (or 50 pound salt blocks) in it so she has to push them around to get to all her hay. Just make sure they don't have any sharp spots so she does not cut herself. Or you could feed her from something like a hay net, where she has to pull out a bit at a time. either may, make her work for the hay and she will slow down. I use the salt block method to keep my horse from ihaling his rice bran pellets

Where are you from? CA

How did you locate this forum? originally, google

Hi Deborah,

Jamie's idea is a good one to slow down her eating. But, keep in mind that the main reason she is eating her hay so fast is because she is hungry. Horses who go without hay to nibble on all night long will typically bolt it down, and this one of the main causes of impaction colic.

And, from what you describe, she likely does have an ulcer. Most horses, nearly 90% of those who are stalled without feed for hours, have ulcers. This can manifest itself in behavioral changes that you described, along with colic.

So, I wouldn't expect that she would eat 3 bales of hay in an evening. But, the only way to know that she has had enough is if she has some hay left in the morning.

About the vitamins and minerals added to the feed... Yes, if you feed the recommended amount on the feedbag, then there is no need to add vitamins and minerals. However, in many cases, this recommended amount is too much. So, if you are feeding less than what's recommended, you should consider adding a supplement, such as Accel, to fill in the gaps.

All the best,

Dr. Getty

Thanks to both Jamie and Dr. Getty for the suggestions... that should help get me down the road toward a solution that will suit me, Juby, and the barn owner. I certainly look forward to the day i can have a horse property of my own -- logistics will be so much easier!

On bolting down her hay... she will do this even when first put into her stall, after eating throughout the day. I read an article in Equus about horses that are deficient in whatever it is that tells them they are full. Since i am vigilant about worming, including for tapeworms, i have often wondered if Juby is like that. She seems to ALWAYS be hungry, even after just eating.

Thanks again for the advice.

Where are you from? MA

How did you locate this forum? mentioned on Yahoo! group

Hi Deborah,

OK - that makes it more clear what's going on here. If she is always hungry, it indicates that she is not producing enough serotonin. This is a neurotransmitter that controls appetite and without enough of it, she will not get the signal that she is full.

I would recommend that you give her a B complex known as B-Plex (see my website store for more info). This B complex contains all of the B vitamins, which will reduce any stress that she is experiencing, causing her serotonin levels to increase.

She also requires a high quality protein, that provides enough tryptophane (an essential amino acid) that is a precursor to serotonin production. Are you giving her some alfalfa along with her grass hay? This will definitely help.

Thanks for the lovely e-card that you sent! I was very touched. It is truly my pleasure to be able to help.

All the best,

Dr. Getty

I had a horse that would suck the hay up also.. The hay net method worked great for him and kept him busy while in his stall.

I also had a friend that had a hay vacune worse then my guy, she would throw him his 1 to 2 flakes for feed and then had put flakes of hay fluffed up in a milk crate with the small diamond shaped sides so he really had to work at getting it out. I thought it was a little to much work for the poor guy nut it seemed to work for her.

Where are you from? St, Petersburg, Fl

How did you locate this forum? Web

Hi Brenda,

Yes, there are methods to slow down eating, as you suggested. But, rather than work around the symptoms, it would be so much more effective to cure the problem, as I know you would agree.

So, excessive hunger can be due to a metabolic disorder, very similar to depression in humans, that results from reduced serotonin levels maintained in the brain.

All the best,

Dr. Getty