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Ask the Nutritionist: Dr. Getty's Forum for Equine Nutrition

   Welcome to my forum. 

Here you will find more than 6 years of questions and my answers. It is searchable and offers a great deal of information. 

Currently, I am discontinuing new questions. This may change in the future, but in the meantime, please know that It has been a true pleasure serving you. 

Take a look at my Nutrition Library and Tips of the Month for a variety of answers on selected topics. Be sure to sign up for my monthly e-newsletter, Forage for Thought

I also have a growing number of recordings on "Teleseminars on Nutrition Topics that Concern You" as well as the new, Spotlight on Equine Nutrition Series -- printed versions of favorite teleseminars.

And finally, look for my articles in a variety of local publications and online newsletters, as well as the Horse Journal, where I am the Contributing Nutrition Editor.  

 

All the best,

 Dr. Getty 

 



Ask the Nutritionist: Dr. Getty's Forum for Equine Nutrition
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Wheat bran

Hello again! I am sorry that I am not even giving you a chance to reply to my last email, but I have so many questions!!
I had never come accross feeding horses wheat bran or beet pulp before moving to Canada, but it seems to be a very common practice here. I have read most of your posta, and see that you reccomend beet pulp often as a high calorie, high fibre feed. What is your opinion on wheat bran? I am trying to source an organic supply of beet pulp, or at least spray-free, and have found a great supply of wheat bran in the meantime. I intend to feed a mix of both, with nutrients/suppliments added. Have you any advice on ratios of beet pulp to wheat bran, and how much to feed say a 16.1 hand thoroughbred X (18yrs, not an easy keeper at all!)? Thanks in advance, Zoe.

Where are you from? Originally New Zealand, now living in the interior of BC, Canada

How did you locate this forum? Through the 'Natural Horse People' website

Re: Wheat bran

my apologies! I am still trying to get through all your old 'posts and replies', and have just now seen a couple that partially answer both of my questions. It sounds as though wheat bran is fine, but you reccomend beet often, I am unsure why one is supperior, and how much of each to feed. Also, you have mentioned that the bran is high in phosphorus, as is the ground flax, so calcium supplimentation is essential - which I am doing, but how much is the question (if I am giving all 3 ingredients listed above, plus nutrients). Also, what is the correct calcium - magnesium ratio for horses. My cal/mag is combined, but perhaps I need even more calcium to balace out the extra phosphorus in the bran, beet pulp, and flax. Ever more confused, Zoe.

Where are you from? Originally New Zealand, now living in the interior of BC, Canada

How did you locate this forum? Through the \'Natural Horse People\' website

Re: Wheat bran

Sorry, just to clarify:
I understand the calcium - phosphorus ratio should be 2:1, is this correct? I am also guessing that one must test (not sure who does this around my area) their bran and flax to find out the level of phosphorus, before they know how much calcium to give - is this correct? Buying a pre-made flax mix (ie nutra-flax) is probably not affordable for me at this time. Thanks again Dr. Getty, for your patience and expertise!!

Where are you from? Originally New Zealand, now living in the interior of BC, Canada

How did you locate this forum? Through the \'Natural Horse People\' website

Re: Wheat bran

Hi Zoe,

I don't often recommend feeding bran, unless it is a commercial product that has added calcium to make the ratio more in line where there is more calcium to phosphorus.

Yes, a 2 to 1 ratio of Ca to P is ideal though horses can tolerate much higher amounts of calcium, up to six times that of phosphorus.

Ca to Magnesium can be 1:1, and ideally 2:1 Ca:Mg. But bran is very low in Mg.

If you feed bran you need to have the entire diet analyzed, which I can help you with if you would like to set up an appointment.

Many people feed bran once a week, let's say, to prevent sand colic. This not only doesn't work, but it can actually induce colic (which unfortunately, has happened to several clients' horses before I had a chance to offer suggested changes). The problem is that the bacterial flora in the hind gut require consistency. They need to becomes adjusted to the same feed and if a feed item is given intermittently, they cannot adjust adequately and colic can result.

So, if your horse's diet is very high in calcium -- such as one where only alfalfa hay is eaten (no grass hay), then bran may be a useful addition. Otherwise, I recommend avoiding it, unless it has been calcium-fortified.

I hope this is helpful.

All the best,

Dr. Getty

Where are you from? Bayfield, CO

Re: Wheat bran

Hello again Dr. Getty. Thank you so much for your time replying to my querries, I understand how precious it must be, espescially this time of year! I also want to apologise for the lenghty questions - after my first couple of posts, I had more time to go through some previous posts/replies, as well as using the search, and found the answers already there (you are very patient!). I will certainly consider making an appointment with you after the holidays. I am no longer feeding my mare grain, but she does get an evening meal of 3 cups wheat bran in the evenings. Currently, I am adding cal/mag in the form of finely ground hi-cal limestone (feed grade), flax oil, ultra-kelp, (human)zinc, and apple cidar vinegar. I have been considering adding hemp as well as extra magnesium, but want to make sure this is what she needs. This brings me to tonights question(!!)...
How do you go about deciding what suppliments a horse needs? Should I be getting bloodwork or a hair analysis done in the meantime? I have only had my mare one year, and she definitely has some health issues (the vet diagnosed low in iodine due to the large swelling in her thyroid, though I understand the symptoms for over-active thyroid are the same as underactive, and she has had no blood test). Argh, can't seem to keep my emails short, sorry! Have a great break, christmas etc. Thanks again, Zoe.

Where are you from? Originally New Zealand, now living in the interior of BC, Canada

How did you locate this forum? Through the \'Natural Horse People\' website

Re: Wheat bran

Hi Zoe - I apologize for hijacking your post but couldn't help but think that maybe 3 cups of wheat bran is a little much. Around here they have something called *big head* in a horse who get's to much wheat bran which my old vet said it's just that - the horses head get's large and it's not a good thing. A lady in our trail club gave her horse to much wheat bran not knowing and that happened to her horse and she eventually lost him. Dr. Getty am I out in right field on this subject? Happy Holidays!!

Where are you from? Ill

Re: Wheat bran

oh-my-gosh!!! Thanks Vickie, I had sure never heard of that before. I am feeding my mare one evening meal a day (grass hay ad lib 24hr), and the bulk of it consists of wheat bran (3 coffee cups full). I do feel odd about it, as I am aware of so many people having wheat allergies these days, not sure if that happens in animals or not. I suspect she has had a life of refined feeds etc, as she has had a full-on competitive life, and is quite sore now (mentally and physically). I am from New Zealand originally, and never heard of feeding wheat bran there (guess we arn't big wheat growers in that part of the world). I have been trying to find an organic (or at least spray free or even just GE free) source of beet pulp, but to no avail so far. although she has no laminitis issues (at least no symptoms), I am not feeding her alfalfa, as I had concerns about the possibility of an allergy there. Not sure how to check for that. I have also heard that alfalfa can be toxic to the system (but am now reconsidering bthis advice, after reading what Dr Getty has to say about it). Sounds like a very valuable protein source, and she's not really getting that from anything else. Not sure if EPSM is a risk - I had honestly never heard of that before finding this site. Thanks for any and all input, Zoe.

Where are you from? Originally New Zealand, now living in the interior of BC, Canada

How did you locate this forum? Through the \\'Natural Horse People\\' website

Re: Wheat bran

Well Zoe thanks to Dr. Getty's wonderful knowledge my 3 horses- 13 yr QH - 15 yr QH - and 26 yr leop appy all get Triple Crown *lite* feed with 6 oz each of Glanzen a day (wonderful stuff) and alfalfa/grass hay and they are all thriving even the 26 yr old who (cross fingers) is a VERY easy keeper. So maybe you might want to consider that for your guy, but once again Dr. Getty is the expert here not me

Where are you from? Ill

Re: Wheat bran

Hi Zoe and Vicky,

Yes, Vicky - you are right on target! All bones, including the skull are affected by too much phosphorus. So, Zoe, please stop feeding the wheat bran and when we visit, I'll get you on track. In the meantime, see if you can find a good, complete feed. Feed only that plus all the grass hay he wants. We can always change it later, but I'd like to get him off of all these added minerals that you're giving. Minerals are very delicate "creatures" in that they interact with one another and supplementing individual ones is very, very risky.

So, I hope to be speaking with you soon.

All the best,

Dr. Getty :)

Where are you from? Bayfield, CO

Re: Wheat bran

Is there anything I can be doing as far as bloodwork and/or hair analysis to determine where she is at? I had found out when we got her that she needed zinc and boron, not sure if this is still the case or not. Do you reccommend any particular type of blood test, or just go on background, current living conditions, feeding regime, body/symptoms, behaviour, etc to determine a plan. I phoned our local feed store (we have 2 in the region, and they carry the same stuff)to see what was availible in the way of a complete feed... not much! Equicare horse pallets (by Otter Co-Op), consisting of the following:
alfalfa, mill run, soyabean hulls, canola meal, soya meal, soya oil, live yeast culture, bio-mos, bio-phos, limestone, vit ADE pre-mix, bio-plex, chelated minerals (doesn't say what!), organic selenium, copper sulphate, mag oxide, zinc oxide, pherrous oxide, calcium carbonate.
20%fibre, 14%protien, 4%fat
Besides this feed, they have various pre-made grain mixes (corn, oats, barley, + various vit/min for dfferent life stages/work requirements). We are very much out of the way here, and don't have much selection. All this feed comes from the same supplier (out of Vancouver). I may be able to special order something, but I have no idea what product/brand is availible and good enough (and it takes 2 weeks to get anything 'special' out here).
As my mare is arthritic, I am thinking it would be wise to stay away from all the soya/canola oil. Can't help but think that I may be better of sticking with the wheatbran for now, and just cut back the amount, and ommit the minerals for now. Does this sound allright to you Dr Getty? I really love this horse, and want whats best for her. Oh, and the pallets I mentioned have to be special ordered too, which is fine if it's best. I would really (and desperately!) appreciate some advice before you go on holiday, please. With much gratitude, Zoe.

Where are you from? Originally New Zealand, now living in the interior of BC, Canada

How did you locate this forum? Through the \\'Natural Horse People\\' website

Re: Wheat bran

Hi Zoe,

Actually I like the feed you described. It has canola oil, not soybean oil, which is great. The Soybean Meal does not have as much fat as plain soybean oil and is highly nutritious. Soybean oil, however, is high in omega 6s, which increase inflammation and therefore, are not appropriate for arthritis. But, Canola oil's omega 6 content is very low. It is mostly omega 9 (monounsaturated fatty acids)and also has some omega 3s, which decrease inflammation. And, it doesn't contain cereal grains (oats, corn, barley, etc.). Soybean hulls are an excellent source of fiber and protein and boost the quality of grass hay since soy and alfalfa are legumes.

Don't bother with hair analyses -- they are not accurate. A simple CBC will give you an idea of the health of the immune system, red blood cell count, as well as kidney and liver function.

So, go with this feed and lots of grass hay, water, salt, and you're set! Consider a joint supplement that contains both glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate, for his arthritis. You're likely to find one locally.

And, if you like, let's set up a time to visit after the first of the year to go over his health conditions to fine tune the diet.

Happy Holidays!

Dr. Getty

Where are you from? Bayfield, CO

Re: Wheat bran

Thank you for your quick reply Dr. Getty, I will order the feed, and stop the added minerals (though I would still like to try the hemp - will send you the info I have when you are back from your holidays). I had always heard that soya feeds are hormonal, and as I have never considered feeding it before, have never looked into this statement further (perhaps it is totally unfoundered?) am, however, really concerned about feeding my horses GM foodstuffs, and try to purchase sprayfree (if not organic); but will make an exception here as I cannot find a complete horse feed that meets these requirements (perhaps I should start a feed company out here!!!). I also forgot to mention that I do have my mare on Recovery EQ (I believe you are familiar with this brand of glucosomine suppliment). Have a great christmas!

Where are you from? Originally New Zealand, now living in the interior of BC, Canada

How did you locate this forum? Through the \\\'Natural Horse People\\\' website

Re: Wheat bran

Happy New Year, Zoe!

I hope you had a wonderful holiday. I'll look forward to receiving the material you have on hemp.

Soybeans do contain phytoestrogens, as do oats, corn, carrots and apples. Too much soy, of course, is never a good idea and I would not, therefore, feed it exclusively. But, adding soy to the diet is beneficial. And, phytoestrogens have a protective effective on the body by reducing the formation of some cancers that are influenced by high levels of animal estrogens.

Best regards,

Dr. Getty

Where are you from? Bayfield, CO