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Ask the Nutritionist: Dr. Getty's Forum for Equine Nutrition

   Welcome to my forum. 

Here you will find more than 6 years of questions and my answers. It is searchable and offers a great deal of information. 

Currently, I am discontinuing new questions. This may change in the future, but in the meantime, please know that It has been a true pleasure serving you. 

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 Dr. Getty 

 



Ask the Nutritionist: Dr. Getty's Forum for Equine Nutrition
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Older fatter Morgan- long

Your site is WONDERFUL, thank you so much for what you do. I was searching and think I hit Gold! I think I have read all the other posts and have a few questions.
I have a Morgan mare, 20yo, 14h and very obese (rates a solid 7 now on the scale but very easily can tip over to an 8/9). Has arthritis in her back and legs, no xrays ever done, not horrible but noticable stiffness. Mostly retired except for occassional easy trail rides. She is boarded, right now out every day from 7a to 6p with a good shelter and mixed herd of 4others on about 3acres, she is higher ranking in the herd. She gets 1/2lb TC Lite in her stall in am but very seldom finishs it, 1+1/2lbs in eve and maybe half of an apple for a spoon of salt to stick to and takes her time eating it. Her hay consists of hay bought from 3 different local counties. First being excellent quality mix of alfalfa/timothy/orchard, she gets approx 3flakes(6lbs)in am in field and another 2flakes around 4p then brought in and given a mix of the other 2that I have that are lower quality and less alfalfa, about 6flakes (10lbs) and she usually has very little but some in the morning left, I do bump this up a little more when windy and subzero temps or I see that she is eating every last morsel. I have no control over changeing her morning or afternoon hay rations.
She has decent feet, but her mane is looking very sparce and her coat is not what it used to be afew years ago. She has shed out well in the past and starting her spring shed now although it is still very cold but days are getting longer. And her eyes are not as bright as they once were, usually watery and puffy.
First question is regarding salt, I give her regular iodized table salt and have a white salt block in her stall that she does lick. She has clean water fresh every night in her stall not heated and water available outside that has a heater and never low. Not an excessive drinker but does have much stonger urine than the others and voids large amounts, I think it is related to the amount of alfalfa in her hay? Is the iodized salt ok or do I need 'plain'? or do I need to supplement this at all?
Most important question, Quiessence? I am horribly worried about her this spring, every year it is worse and she gets bigger. The summer field is lush and Her time is limited, they are worked up to a few hours out then 24/7, I take Her out as soon as I get off work. I have tried a grazing muzzzle and hated it as much as she did. It caused her a great deal of anxiety to the point of dangerous in trying to get it off herself and not drinking water. To not turn her out with others in am is even more stressful. I would like to try Q on her but wonder if she needs more, I was looking at the other supplements and see many of then contain mag and wonder if there is another that may be a better fit. Thought about the Nutraflax as well for the Omega3's (I was thinking Cocosoya oil before I found your site) and maybe something that would help her be not so stiff?
Did I mention she can be very moody/nasty tempered?
Also vet is coming this month for spring checkups and teeth.
Thanks for you time and I look forward to your valuable opinions!
Jann

Where are you from? OHIO

How did you locate this forum? searching for help

Re: Older fatter Morgan- long

Hi Jann,

Thank you for writing and for your very kind words.

You have a lot going on with your mare. The first step would be to have your vet do some bloodwork on her to evaluate her for Cushings syndrome and/or Metabolic Syndrome.

The next step would to set up a time when we can visit. I say this because I am not able to answer your questions with a simple response. There are many factors involved.

Yes, she likely needs Quiessence, but she may also benefit from Cush Alleve. And, yes, she needs Omega 3 fatty acids, but I'm not sure about what other gaps may be in her diet. She may benefit from an overall multiple vitamin/mineral supplement that is flaxseed meal based such as Glanzen Complete.

In the meantime, I would recommend giving her Quiessence because magnesium is very, very helpful. She also needs to drink more because of her strong urine. It could be due to alfalfa, but more likely, due to pre-cushings (hence, the bloodwork would be very helpful).

Iodized salt is important only if you are not already giving her iodine from another source.

You're correct about reducing her stress. Stress causes the release of the stress hormone, Cortisol. Too much cortisol increases insulin resistance, promotes fat storage, and increase the risk of laminitis. And, if she is pre-cushionoid, her cortisol levels are already elevated, so you wouldn't want to exacerbate the problem.

So, please let me know if I can assist you further.

All the best,

Dr. Getty

Where are you from? Bayfield, CO

Re: Older fatter Morgan- long

The Quiessence worked wonders on my fat Morgan gelding... I think that you'll be surprised how well it will work on your mare. He had fat deposits all along his crest and at the top of his tail... They have all gone away since he's been on Quiessence. He's kept a great weight with a little exercise a few times a week; the Quiessence; and Triple Crown Lite... He's a little fickle about eating the TC Lite too, but it is usually gone before the next feeding... Sometimes if I add a very, and I mean very small amout of alfalfa pellets to his TC Lite (only as much as I can fit in my fingers... not even a handful). He's become a lot more youthful (he's 19) and happy... And a lot more active from the weight loss. I hope your mare has the same results!

Where are you from? Ohio

How did you locate this forum? internet

Re: Older fatter Morgan- long

Hi Andrea,

Thanks for the feedback on Quiessence. Yes, I have found that it is effective in the vast majority of cases. It takes some time for most horses to start to lose body fat, so patience is important. Some horses do respond rather quickly (say within 2 months) but most take 5 to 6 months to lose weight. However, persistence and a low starch diet (like you've done) with plenty of hay 24/7, are the keys to success.

All the best,

Dr. Getty

Where are you from? Bayfield, CO

Re: Older fatter Morgan- update & ???

Hi Dr Getty, just a short update and question.
Vet was out and feels Mare does not have Cushings but could be IR but does not believe the bloodwork is necessary since I am maintaining her as close as possible in her boarding situation. He says I give her too much hay? (I have a new reputable hay supplier this year and it will be tested)
I have been using the Q, but at a lower dose with the pasture growing. My question is - at what dose should I give Mare on pasture. She is up to a few hours in the am, also getting am hay prior to going out as well as in afternoon and eve. She does look better I think and has shed out really well. Is it safe to give 2-4oz Q with her being on pasture?
Thanks again for all your help,it is much appreciated.

Andrea, thanks for your input! I found a flavoring that just a tiny bit, sugar safe, really made a huge improvement in how my morgan enjoys her TC Lite, she loves it! Email me if you would like.

Re: Older fatter Morgan- long

Hi Jann,

Since we don't know exactly how much magnesium is in the pasture, it is safe to assume that it is, on average, .20% Dry Matter, which provides approximately 10 grams of Magnesium if her total grass and hay intake is approximately 14 lbs of dry matter.

So, to answer your question, give her 2 scoops of Quiessence per day (this will provide 10 grams of magnesium and the forage, another 10).

This is going on averages, and the only way to know if your hay has this much magnesium is to have it tested.

All the best,

Dr. Getty

Where are you from? Bayfield, CO