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Ask the Nutritionist: Dr. Getty's Forum for Equine Nutrition

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Here you will find more than 6 years of questions and my answers. It is searchable and offers a great deal of information. 

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Ask the Nutritionist: Dr. Getty's Forum for Equine Nutrition
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Re: New Purina feeds

Hello Dr. Getty,
Thanks for the reply, yes I always kept hay in front of my last old horse you helped me with. What I was concered about is this horse getting too much selenium from my hay. It tested out at 1.06ppm dry matter. So I think if he were to get 15 pounds of hay per day that would be 7.21 mg of selenium per day just from my hay. I have been told that the upper se limit is 18-45 mg per day.

So I guess what I need too know is can I feed him this hay free choice along with the omelene 400?
I dont want to overdose him on the se.

I like the idea of added vit E, that I will do but without the added se.
Thanks!
Della

Where are you from? Necedah, Wi

How did you locate this forum? have used Dr. Getty with my last horse

Re: New Purina feeds

Hi Della,

Are you certain your hay is 1.06 ppm? That is incredibly high. The upper limit should be 0.6 ppm, taking the entire diet into consideration.

If your hay is actually 1.06 ppm, you should not feed a commercial feed that is fortified with selenium. Instead, I suggest mixing a few ingredients, such as beet pulp, alfalfa pellets, and flaxseed meal and add a vitamin/mineral supplement that does not have selenium. Or, combine flax with vitamins and minerals with Glanzen Complete (and you can get this without selenium on my website).

I recommend that you either have your hay retested or if it's feasible, look for a different supplier, because hay, free-choice, usually amounts to at least 2% of body weight, more if the horse is working. For a 1000 lb horse, that's 20 lbs per day and your hay would be over the 0.6 ppm limit.

Another option, if you already have a large supply of this hay, would be to purchase another batch from a different area and dilute the high-selenium hay. But, frankly, your hay is too high in selenium to be safe.

Please keep me posted.

Dr. Getty

P.S. It just occurred to me that there was a hay supplier not far from me that had a selenium concentration of 1.2 ppm, not much more than yours, and there were horses throughout our county whose hooves were completely sloughing off -- it was very tragic.

But, this was an isolated area where there was some type of industrial plant nearby, polluting the soil. Everywhere else in my area is fine, which makes me think that your situation may be similar.







Della
Hello Dr. Getty,
Thanks for the reply, yes I always kept hay in front of my last old horse you helped me with. What I was concered about is this horse getting too much selenium from my hay. It tested out at 1.06ppm dry matter. So I think if he were to get 15 pounds of hay per day that would be 7.21 mg of selenium per day just from my hay. I have been told that the upper se limit is 18-45 mg per day.

So I guess what I need too know is can I feed him this hay free choice along with the omelene 400?
I dont want to overdose him on the se.

I like the idea of added vit E, that I will do but without the added se.
Thanks!
Della

Where are you from? Bayfield, CO

Re: New Purina feeds

Hello Dr. Getty,

Thanks for your response.

Yes the test came from Equi-analytical and it states as fed ppm 1.06, 100%dry 1.18.

I will email you the note from them from Paul. He assured me this was safe to feed. He said max. upper level is 2-5 ppm/day. Purena's Feed manger also stated to me this is safe to feed even at 20 pounds. Or about 9.63 mg/day. Though also stated the NRC has accepted an max. tolerable level of 2ppm which calulates to about 20mg for an average 1100 lb horse eating 22 pounds of hay and feed per day. My hay at 20 lbs would be about 9.63 mg/day of selenium. She also added that the NRC says there is no beneifit to feeding more than 5mg/day so this is why she suggested to lower the hay amount and add the 400 to the diet. She stated that my hay is much higher than recommened intake, but still well below the maximum tolerable levels. The 400 plus 10- 15 pounds of hay would be about 5.64 mg selenium/day total(at 10 lbs of hay) between the 2 feeds.

I had fed this hay to my old QH with no problems but fed the beet pulp/alfalfa pellets/ preox no added selenium. I am trying to stay away from all the addtional feed. But still want the best for him and keep the selenium down. So it does present a problem.

I may try the flax/Glanzen complete/no selenium. New hay is no option as I have a barn full. This hay is grown in Hadley Minn the south west corner, this area does have a higher selenium content,the hay grower supplies some top show barns, it is a high quality hay.

I do like to keep hay in front of my horses and know this is the healthy way to feed, but I dont think I want to go over 15-18 pounds of this hay per day.
Thank you for all your input..
Della

Where are you from? Wi

How did you locate this forum? Have worked with Dr. Getty

Re: New Purina feeds

Hi Della,

I'm going to post my response to your personal email here, for the benefit of my readers. I also want to mention that we talked about diluting your current hay with a hay replacer product -- chopped forage, or hay cubes, that are not fortified with any other vitamins and minerals. Plus you can feed 20% of his diet as beet pulp.

Here's what I wrote:

I just forwarded an article from The Horse about selenium. Here is a quote from that article:

“As little as 2 mg more than the required daily intake of selenium can be harmful to a horse, and it can even be deadly. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has set a recommended daily limit for selenium intake in horses at 0.3 ppm (parts per million) or 3 mg per day. Doses of 5 mg or more of selenium per day can cause mild to severe toxicity in a horse.”


It’s true – 5 ppm is the maximum upper limit, but horses should never consume anywhere near that amount. According to the National Research Council, a more advisable limit is 2 ppm of dry matter. They also state, “there is no justification for feeding selenium at a concentration greater than 0.5 mg Se/kg DM.

Equi-Analytical is technically correct in their assessment of the upper limit, but if you were to feed hay free choice, your horse would likely eat more than 15 lbs per day. Bottom line… I would definitely not add any more selenium to his diet. 7.21 mg per day is likely ok, even 9.62 mg (for 20 lbs) may be safe, but definitely pushing the safety limit.

Della, I’m glad to help – selenium can build up to chronically toxic levels and I am concerned about adding any more from a commercially fortified feed. If he were my horse, I would not consider it.


All the best,

Dr. Getty

Della
Hello Dr. Getty,

Thanks for your response.

Yes the test came from Equi-analytical and it states as fed ppm 1.06, 100%dry 1.18.

I will email you the note from them from Paul. He assured me this was safe to feed. He said max. upper level is 2-5 ppm/day. Purena's Feed manger also stated to me this is safe to feed even at 20 pounds. Or about 9.63 mg/day. Though also stated the NRC has accepted an max. tolerable level of 2ppm which calulates to about 20mg for an average 1100 lb horse eating 22 pounds of hay and feed per day. My hay at 20 lbs would be about 9.63 mg/day of selenium. She also added that the NRC says there is no beneifit to feeding more than 5mg/day so this is why she suggested to lower the hay amount and add the 400 to the diet. She stated that my hay is much higher than recommened intake, but still well below the maximum tolerable levels. The 400 plus 10- 15 pounds of hay would be about 5.64 mg selenium/day total(at 10 lbs of hay) between the 2 feeds.

I had fed this hay to my old QH with no problems but fed the beet pulp/alfalfa pellets/ preox no added selenium. I am trying to stay away from all the addtional feed. But still want the best for him and keep the selenium down. So it does present a problem.

I may try the flax/Glanzen complete/no selenium. New hay is no option as I have a barn full. This hay is grown in Hadley Minn the south west corner, this area does have a higher selenium content,the hay grower supplies some top show barns, it is a high quality hay.

I do like to keep hay in front of my horses and know this is the healthy way to feed, but I dont think I want to go over 15-18 pounds of this hay per day.
Thank you for all your input..
Della

Where are you from? Bayfield, CO

Re: New Purina feeds

Hi Dr. Getty,

Thanks so much for helping me understand this situation better. After I check around to see what is available I will set up a phone consult with you as we did with Daytona,that way you can help me refine this to what I have available to purchase.

Thanks again, my horse is finishing the show circut then will be home in Sept.

Best to you,
Della

Where are you from? Wi

How did you locate this forum? Have worked with Dr. Getty

Re: New Purina feeds

Hi Della,

I'm glad to have been able to ease your mind about this and put things in perspective. Selenium dosage requires diligent attention because toxic levels can build up slowly.

I'll look forward to working with you to get your new fellow on the best course.

All the best,

Dr. Getty

Della
Hi Dr. Getty,

Thanks so much for helping me understand this situation better. After I check around to see what is available I will set up a phone consult with you as we did with Daytona,that way you can help me refine this to what I have available to purchase.

Thanks again, my horse is finishing the show circut then will be home in Sept.

Best to you,
Della

Where are you from? Bayfield, CO