Ask the Nutritionist: Dr. Getty's Forum for Equine Nutrition
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All the best,
Dr. Getty
Hello Holly,
Thank you for writing and I understand your concern. Grass hay is the foundation of your horse's diet and should be of good quality, adequate protein, and digestible. He should also have all that he wants -- an empty stomach is bound to lead to ulcerations within the gastrointestinal tract. Horses need to chew virtually all day to produce saliva -- a natural antacid. If left on an empty stomach, the acid bathes the stomach and intestinal linings.
Poor quality hay (which is what you had described) leads to excessive gas formation. A hay belly is not fat -- it's gas. While a slight hay belly is normal and healthy, an excessive one is not a good sign.
I recommend going with orchard/timothy that can be fed free choice. And have it analyzed so that its NSC level (WSC plus Starch) is not more than 12%. And then add some alfalfa -- one flake for every two flakes of the grass mixture hay.
Your horse may have a colonic ulcer -- which will not show up on an endoscopy and is not helped by Gastrogard. I recommend having some blood work done -- have your vet test for Fibrinogen levels, as well as a complete blood count and albumin levels.
You may find setting up an appointment for a phone visit. That way I can spend some time with you going over everything -- his history, feeding, medical treatments, environment, etc., to customize a plan that will help him maintain a normal weight, proper condition, and prevent future problems.
In the meantime... good quality grass hay, some alfalfa, and a vitamin/mineral supplement that is flaxseed meal based -- I recommend Glanzen Complete. A prebiotic -- Ration Plus -- is also very helpful to allow for more efficient digestion of forage.
All the best,
Dr. Getty 
Author of Feed Your Horse Like A Horse
The vet at the hospital scoped and tested her and found nothing conclusive, but thought that both my horses had haybelly and cresty necks. So she asked that I have the hay tested. The results came back showing too low protein (5.6%), low Lysine and too high fiber. Since I am a boarder we tried the supplement route. Added flake of alfalfa and Triple Crown 30%. Seemed to help some but then the pasture (lives in 24/7) started to produce some grass and both my horses gained weight and became really agitated.
I immediately thought too much protein so have since cut out the alfalfa and halved the TC 30%. So they are currently living off the pasture and a little of the low quality hay for fiber as well as their vit/min supps. Too soon to tell if this change will help.
So now I realize that I just simply (or not so) need to buy better quality hay which leads me to the confusion. What would be a better choice....orchard/alfalfa mix or orchard/timothy?
They will get mainly pasture this summer with a vitamin and my young one gets Assure Probiotic. Then as the pasture subsides I want to get them on the right forage and am so confused as to what mix is best. vet stated a good hay with 10%plus protein and vit/min supplement.
Both are easy keepers....but my younger horse with the digestive issues appears fat when she really has a hay belly and bloat. In March she lost 25 pounds and finally have hips and flanks again when I first started supplementing the poor hay.
Am I even on the right track? It seems that everytime I think I have this solved....something goes awry.
Thank you in advance for your insight.
Where are you from? Bayfield, CO
Greetings Holly,
Thank you for your patience -- I am finally able to type with both hands after my injury.
Coronavirus is quite rare in horses and the fact that an adult horse picked it up is an indication of a suppressed immune function (which is likely with an intestinal problem). So, we will work on that when we visit.
Gas can result from an intestinal disorder, especially when the hindgut bacterial population is compromised. Therefore, a probiotic is useful. Digestion of forage is more efficient, true, but that is what you want. Digestion of fat, protein, and carbohydrates, however, takes place in the foregut (the small intestine), rather than the hindgut, so calories from these nutrients are not affected by probiotics.
When you're ready to schedule an appointment, let me know and we'll go over the big picture to determine the best course of action.
Best regards,
Dr. Getty
Thank you so much for your reply. I will certainly set up an apt for a phone consult and I plan to purchase your book. Right now I am weeding through the hay dealers (scary when you know nothing) so once I tackle that challenge I will set up an apt.
About the blood work...not sure of specifics but she had a complete blood profile done in the hospital and was tested for a wide variety of diseases. They found nothing abnormal, but strangley she did test positive for the Corona Virus. They said it was rare for older horses to get but not unheard of. Since she lived in a pasture with a foal, they assume that is where she picked it up ? Possibly eating feces due to the imbalance in the hay?
About the Glanzen supplements....I used to have her on Pre-Ox because she tested positive for allergies to corn, soy, oats and borderline wheat and that seemed to fit her needs. However, I recently considered the Glanzen product but I have two horses to feed and the price was a little high considering I have to now purchase my own hay
Ration Plus....I used that for about 3 months hoping to get rid of the gas but I didn't see any change. She then got on the Arenus Assure trial and has continued on that for the last 4 months. However, she is still gassy so not sure thats working either.
Lastly...is it true that ProBiotics can cause weight gain. I read that because they help digest feed that it can also allow for more nutrients and fats to be absorbed? She is a little cresty.
Thank you again and I look forward to talking with you.
Holly
Where are you from? Bayfield, CO
Thank you again for your response and sorry to hear you were injured. Hopefully you are doing much better now. I recently lost my job after 9 years so I am in the process of getting my things in order and re-thinking my supplements for my horses. I have them on pasture/hay (minimal hay because they got fat on pasture), SmartPak EZ Keeper Vit, ADR ProBiotic top dressed on small (2 cups) alfalfa cubes soaked.
Seems to be working and moved them to smaller pasture to limit grazing and increased their excercise. Losing some weight but still about 50 pounds to go.
But now I would like to provide them with a Omega 3 source and am even more confused. Do I just add the SmartPak Omega or switch completely to a more complete supplement like Glanzen? Equishine also has a flax based supplement that looks good. Do you know anything about their products?
Do they really need all the extra vitamins that are supplied in say SmartPak Vits? I noticed that Glanzen doestn't have most of them and no MagOx or Selenium.
I like the SmartPak because it provides ALL plus some gut support but I am not opposed to changing if some of those things are unnecessary. Whatever I chose it has to be soy, oats, corn and wheat free and provide adequate lysine, magox and needed vits.
If Glanzen would fit my needs then which one? and can I use less than recommended?
Life would be great if I could just feed the Glanzen with the pro-biotic and then pasture/hay
Sorry for all the questions and I promise to call once I am re-employed but I have to keep expenses down and of course the horses are not a reducable expense
Where are you from? NW
Hi Holly,
Your vet is right -- a good quality hay plus a vitamin/mineral supplement. And I would add some flaxseed meal to keep her hormonal levels (in particular, insulin) in good balance. I fear that she is not actually gaining weight, but has a hay belly (which is not fat, but gas).
So, to answer your question.. go with the timothy/orchardgrass mix rather than an alfalfa mix, since she needs to have all the hay she wants -- free choice. That way, she can self-regulate her intake and eat what her body needs. Some alfala is a good idea, but she'll have too much if combined with her grass hay. So if you can offer her alfalfa pellets or alfalfa hay as a separate meal, that would be best.
Regarding a supplement, I recommend Glanzen Complete because it is flaxseed meal based and offers her a all the vitamins and minerals she needs.
She may also require some Quiessence if she has a crestiness to her neck -- that is an indication of insulin resistance and the magnesium/chromium in Quiessence will reduce her circulating insulin levels, allowing her to avoid any related problems (in particular, the risk of laminitis).
I know you've been through a lot of changes and it's difficult to figure out the best course of action, while working with your barn manager. So, please consider setting up an appointment for a personal phone visit. That way, I can go over the big picture -- all the details of your mare's diet and environment -- to come up with a plan that will help her thrive as well as fit into your needs.
All the best,
Dr. Getty
Author of Feed Your Horse Like A Horse
The vet at the hospital scoped and tested her and found nothing conclusive, but thought that both my horses had haybelly and cresty necks. So she asked that I have the hay tested. The results came back showing too low protein (5.6%), low Lysine and too high fiber. Since I am a boarder we tried the supplement route. Added flake of alfalfa and Triple Crown 30%. Seemed to help some but then the pasture (lives in 24/7) started to produce some grass and both my horses gained weight and became really agitated.
I immediately thought too much protein so have since cut out the alfalfa and halved the TC 30%. So they are currently living off the pasture and a little of the low quality hay for fiber as well as their vit/min supps. Too soon to tell if this change will help.
So now I realize that I just simply (or not so) need to buy better quality hay which leads me to the confusion. What would be a better choice....orchard/alfalfa mix or orchard/timothy?
They will get mainly pasture this summer with a vitamin and my young one gets Assure Probiotic. Then as the pasture subsides I want to get them on the right forage and am so confused as to what mix is best. vet stated a good hay with 10%plus protein and vit/min supplement.
Both are easy keepers....but my younger horse with the digestive issues appears fat when she really has a hay belly and bloat. In March she lost 25 pounds and finally have hips and flanks again when I first started supplementing the poor hay.
Am I even on the right track? It seems that everytime I think I have this solved....something goes awry.
Thank you in advance for your insight.
Where are you from? Bayfield, CO
Hello again, Holly,
I think I may have answered an earlier post and then I saw this one.
I am not aware of a comprehensive vitamin/mineral supplement that also offers enough magnesium for an insulin resistant horse -- you want 5,000 mg of magnesium per 250 lbs of body weight. And you want to watch out for too much iron since there is plenty of iron in hay and pasture and generally should not be supplemented.
So, Glanzen Complete is an excellent choice if your horses are not getting at least 8 hours per day of grazing on fresh pasture. If the pasture is of good quality and they're getting plenty of it, go with Glanzen (original).
I'm not really clear as to what else you're feeding -- if you're feeding a commercially fortified feed, then these supplements can be adjusted. So, I feel that I'm not able to give you specific advice until I have a very clear understanding of your horse's pasture intake, hay intake, as well as their other feeds. Exercise level, age, prior health problems --- all these also come into play when planning a feeding regimen. So, when you're able, the best way to would be to get together for an hour and go over everything in detail. It's very likely that we can come up with a more economical approach that fulfills your horses' overall needs.
All the best,
Dr. Getty
Author of Feed Your Horse Like A Horse
Seems to be working and moved them to smaller pasture to limit grazing and increased their excercise. Losing some weight but still about 50 pounds to go.
But now I would like to provide them with a Omega 3 source and am even more confused. Do I just add the SmartPak Omega or switch completely to a more complete supplement like Glanzen? Equishine also has a flax based supplement that looks good. Do you know anything about their products?
Do they really need all the extra vitamins that are supplied in say SmartPak Vits? I noticed that Glanzen doestn't have most of them and no MagOx or Selenium.
I like the SmartPak because it provides ALL plus some gut support but I am not opposed to changing if some of those things are unnecessary. Whatever I chose it has to be soy, oats, corn and wheat free and provide adequate lysine, magox and needed vits.
If Glanzen would fit my needs then which one? and can I use less than recommended?
Life would be great if I could just feed the Glanzen with the pro-biotic and then pasture/hay
Sorry for all the questions and I promise to call once I am re-employed but I have to keep expenses down and of course the horses are not a reducable expense
Where are you from? Bayfield, CO