Hi Zoe - I apologize for hijacking your post but couldn't help but think that maybe 3 cups of wheat bran is a little much. Around here they have something called *big head* in a horse who get's to much wheat bran which my old vet said it's just that - the horses head get's large and it's not a good thing. A lady in our trail club gave her horse to much wheat bran not knowing and that happened to her horse and she eventually lost him. Dr. Getty am I out in right field on this subject? Happy Holidays!!

Where are you from? Ill

oh-my-gosh!!! Thanks Vickie, I had sure never heard of that before. I am feeding my mare one evening meal a day (grass hay ad lib 24hr), and the bulk of it consists of wheat bran (3 coffee cups full). I do feel odd about it, as I am aware of so many people having wheat allergies these days, not sure if that happens in animals or not. I suspect she has had a life of refined feeds etc, as she has had a full-on competitive life, and is quite sore now (mentally and physically). I am from New Zealand originally, and never heard of feeding wheat bran there (guess we arn't big wheat growers in that part of the world). I have been trying to find an organic (or at least spray free or even just GE free) source of beet pulp, but to no avail so far. although she has no laminitis issues (at least no symptoms), I am not feeding her alfalfa, as I had concerns about the possibility of an allergy there. Not sure how to check for that. I have also heard that alfalfa can be toxic to the system (but am now reconsidering bthis advice, after reading what Dr Getty has to say about it). Sounds like a very valuable protein source, and she's not really getting that from anything else. Not sure if EPSM is a risk - I had honestly never heard of that before finding this site. Thanks for any and all input, Zoe.

Where are you from? Originally New Zealand, now living in the interior of BC, Canada

How did you locate this forum? Through the \\'Natural Horse People\\' website

Well Zoe thanks to Dr. Getty's wonderful knowledge my 3 horses- 13 yr QH - 15 yr QH - and 26 yr leop appy all get Triple Crown *lite* feed with 6 oz each of Glanzen a day (wonderful stuff) and alfalfa/grass hay and they are all thriving even the 26 yr old who (cross fingers) is a VERY easy keeper. So maybe you might want to consider that for your guy, but once again Dr. Getty is the expert here not me

Where are you from? Ill

Hi Zoe and Vicky,

Yes, Vicky - you are right on target! All bones, including the skull are affected by too much phosphorus. So, Zoe, please stop feeding the wheat bran and when we visit, I'll get you on track. In the meantime, see if you can find a good, complete feed. Feed only that plus all the grass hay he wants. We can always change it later, but I'd like to get him off of all these added minerals that you're giving. Minerals are very delicate "creatures" in that they interact with one another and supplementing individual ones is very, very risky.

So, I hope to be speaking with you soon.

All the best,

Dr. Getty :)

Where are you from? Bayfield, CO

Is there anything I can be doing as far as bloodwork and/or hair analysis to determine where she is at? I had found out when we got her that she needed zinc and boron, not sure if this is still the case or not. Do you reccommend any particular type of blood test, or just go on background, current living conditions, feeding regime, body/symptoms, behaviour, etc to determine a plan. I phoned our local feed store (we have 2 in the region, and they carry the same stuff)to see what was availible in the way of a complete feed... not much! Equicare horse pallets (by Otter Co-Op), consisting of the following:
alfalfa, mill run, soyabean hulls, canola meal, soya meal, soya oil, live yeast culture, bio-mos, bio-phos, limestone, vit ADE pre-mix, bio-plex, chelated minerals (doesn't say what!), organic selenium, copper sulphate, mag oxide, zinc oxide, pherrous oxide, calcium carbonate.
20%fibre, 14%protien, 4%fat
Besides this feed, they have various pre-made grain mixes (corn, oats, barley, + various vit/min for dfferent life stages/work requirements). We are very much out of the way here, and don't have much selection. All this feed comes from the same supplier (out of Vancouver). I may be able to special order something, but I have no idea what product/brand is availible and good enough (and it takes 2 weeks to get anything 'special' out here).
As my mare is arthritic, I am thinking it would be wise to stay away from all the soya/canola oil. Can't help but think that I may be better of sticking with the wheatbran for now, and just cut back the amount, and ommit the minerals for now. Does this sound allright to you Dr Getty? I really love this horse, and want whats best for her. Oh, and the pallets I mentioned have to be special ordered too, which is fine if it's best. I would really (and desperately!) appreciate some advice before you go on holiday, please. With much gratitude, Zoe.

Where are you from? Originally New Zealand, now living in the interior of BC, Canada

How did you locate this forum? Through the \\'Natural Horse People\\' website

Hi Zoe,

Actually I like the feed you described. It has canola oil, not soybean oil, which is great. The Soybean Meal does not have as much fat as plain soybean oil and is highly nutritious. Soybean oil, however, is high in omega 6s, which increase inflammation and therefore, are not appropriate for arthritis. But, Canola oil's omega 6 content is very low. It is mostly omega 9 (monounsaturated fatty acids)and also has some omega 3s, which decrease inflammation. And, it doesn't contain cereal grains (oats, corn, barley, etc.). Soybean hulls are an excellent source of fiber and protein and boost the quality of grass hay since soy and alfalfa are legumes.

Don't bother with hair analyses -- they are not accurate. A simple CBC will give you an idea of the health of the immune system, red blood cell count, as well as kidney and liver function.

So, go with this feed and lots of grass hay, water, salt, and you're set! Consider a joint supplement that contains both glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate, for his arthritis. You're likely to find one locally.

And, if you like, let's set up a time to visit after the first of the year to go over his health conditions to fine tune the diet.

Happy Holidays!

Dr. Getty

Where are you from? Bayfield, CO

Thank you for your quick reply Dr. Getty, I will order the feed, and stop the added minerals (though I would still like to try the hemp - will send you the info I have when you are back from your holidays). I had always heard that soya feeds are hormonal, and as I have never considered feeding it before, have never looked into this statement further (perhaps it is totally unfoundered?) am, however, really concerned about feeding my horses GM foodstuffs, and try to purchase sprayfree (if not organic); but will make an exception here as I cannot find a complete horse feed that meets these requirements (perhaps I should start a feed company out here!!!). I also forgot to mention that I do have my mare on Recovery EQ (I believe you are familiar with this brand of glucosomine suppliment). Have a great christmas!

Where are you from? Originally New Zealand, now living in the interior of BC, Canada

How did you locate this forum? Through the \\\'Natural Horse People\\\' website

Happy New Year, Zoe!

I hope you had a wonderful holiday. I'll look forward to receiving the material you have on hemp.

Soybeans do contain phytoestrogens, as do oats, corn, carrots and apples. Too much soy, of course, is never a good idea and I would not, therefore, feed it exclusively. But, adding soy to the diet is beneficial. And, phytoestrogens have a protective effective on the body by reducing the formation of some cancers that are influenced by high levels of animal estrogens.

Best regards,

Dr. Getty

Where are you from? Bayfield, CO